I am passionate about biblical prophecies, I confess. Revelation and Daniel are the most precious books in my opinion in the context of the Great Conflict. That led me to undertake a study (which is in the process) on the 7 trumpets.
However, it was a surprise to see this particular report on the subject. Here, I present the report verbatim SYMPOSIUM ON THE TRUMPET OF THE APOCALYPSE organized by 3ABN. It is worth mentioning that the purpose of publication in this space is to analyze and draw their own conclusions, no hints at all the thought of me.
SYMPOSIUM ON THE TRUMPET OF THE APOCALYPSE
Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer
www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com
ABN 18-20 February 3, 2011
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The symposium was organized by 3 ABN after the reaction of many viewers to the conference Kenneth D Cox (a well known evangelist retiree who gives seminars on the Apocalypse), based on the trumpets in late July 2010. The dissatisfaction of the people was due to his surprise futuristic approach in this section of Revelation (which included Al Qaeda in the trumpets). Despite the confrontations passionate moments in meetings of the symposium, there was a friendly atmosphere and Christian all involved. After the exchanges open at different points of view, we could talk together during recess and meals, as brothers we have the same Father in heaven.
The confrontation took place in three distinct directions. First of all, let us say that the staff of 3 ABN is historicist, except John D Lomacang (local pastor) who proposed a futuristic approach of trumpets. In discussions of the panel, Prof. John Stanton (another local pastor), he sided Pr Lomacang a futuristic perspective. Hugo León, a good brother, a young doctor in Chico, California, invited by Kenneth Cox who was also on the panel, it was also the futuristic side, with an openness to the belief in a double fulfillment. A long and heated discussion was about what is meant by the term "futurism." It became clear that has to do with a projection of all the seals and trumpets all the future.
Lomacang Pr, for example, could see the Destroyer of the fifth trumpet another might not be the devil himself, who is expected to appear in person at the end, just before the coming of the Lord. We told him that the devil always works through human entities who oppose the Lord and his people as the king of Babylon in Isa 14, the Roman Empire is represented by the dragon in Revelation 13 (and by different ways, always revealing his murderer and a liar character summed up by Jesus in John 8:44).
A second approach was in Ranko Stefanovic (Andrews University) and Jon Paulien (Loma Linda), who despite pleading historicist rejection unite with compliance futuristic historicist several trumpets, and offered, at the same time, spiritualized approach of trumpets equivalent to what we find amongst Catholic interpreters of the Middle Ages. Instead of armies that fall on Rome, spiritualized the content of trumpets to design philosophies. They think they are historicist philosophies because they bring into consideration can be placed in history. But the result of their approach is evasive and elusive, so much admit that "it is not known if John claimed that every detail of this description be interpreted" (R. Stefanovic, Revelation of Jesus Christ , 304-5). Both futurists and spiritualists can not give a clear projection of prophetic dates specified in the fifth and sixth trumpets.
Stefanovic and Paulien seem to grasp that the use of allegory and was represented at the interpreters of Alexandria in the third and fourth centuries our era. They used it as the easiest way to solve the difficult texts of the Bible. That is the reason why, if their approaches are not yet fully idealistic (a lack of interest in historical performance), are moving in that direction. Can we nominate as spiritualists, by the fact that content spiritualize the prophecies of Revelation? Or it can be considered directly as idealistic under a broader definition of what is idealism in prophetic?
In line with the historicism were Pr Ty Gibson (Light Bearers Ministry, with James Rafferty, another panelist at the symposium), and Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer (Adventist Distinctive Messages, Ph. D. at the University of Strasbourg, living in NC). The difference between them is that Gibson continues to Edwin Maxwell CM Thiele and when you connect the first trumpet with the fall of Jerusalem, while Treiyer continues the legacy Adventist Protestant historicist sees Rome as the target of the judgments of God, from the beginning of our Christian dispensation to the end. Jud Lake (D Th, D. Min., Professor of Preaching and Adventist Studies, Southern University), held a historicist position clear trumpets.
All speakers had the opportunity to share their views for two hours each, except this server who was given the opportunity to talk for four hours because one of the speakers did not come. The meetings began on Friday morning at 8:15 in the morning. After an introduction by Pastor CA Murray, who acted as moderator, the order of the exhibitors was the D and D Gibson Lomacang morning. In the afternoon it was the turn of Stefanovic and Treiyer Drs. The next day, took place on Saturday morning Dr. Paulien and Dr. Treiyer again. The panel session with questions and answers, began after all the speakers gave their message. Four hours of discussion on Saturday afternoon, and three hours on Sunday morning. Most 3-ABN staff attended the meetings.
I had prepared about 500 slides on the trumpet, but I could project only about 400. The material was so vast that, for people not trained in theology may have been not very easy to assimilate all at once. I will not try here with everything I shared with my slides, except for some points that became relevant in discussions of the panel. To contextualize the different positions, also share most of my first speech on the history of the interpretation of the trumpets. With this summary we intend to highlight the problems inherent in current discussions on the trumpets, and clarify issues from the historical perspective.
historical context
In my first submission, considered A Brief Review of the Historicist Interpretation in Christianity and Adventism. This was necessary to contextualize the new proposals being introduced in our church. Declared that during the first three centuries of our era Christian, it was expected that the antichrist will come after the fall of Rome, and sit there with ten kings on an apostate church. This approach was based on the prophecies of Daniel, Paul and John. Rome was, for the Christians of those early centuries, the prostitute of Revelation 17, a city patrol car. Were premillennial because, in general, believed in a peaceable kingdom on earth for a literal thousand years after the first resurrection. Even if they could not yet see how Rome would be overthrown, truly believed that God would punish the city.
In the fourth century , however, the Roman persecution ended with the nominal conversion of Constantine and thus opened the doors to see a connection from the capital of the empire to the heavenly city . How would God punish the capital of the world if the capital was becoming? Being a literal millennium meant a literal destruction of Rome, the only method found to deal with premillennialism was the allegorical, this time to interpret the prophecies of doom. This new proposal came primarily from Christians living in the Greek city Alejandría. El interés en un milenialismo literal como teniendo lugar después de la destrucción de la ciudad de Roma se esfumó. Además, era difícil para muchos aceptar la canonicidad del Apocalipsis. De esta manera, no se podía ver más a Roma como el blanco de los castigos de Dios.
Un nuevo problema apareció en el quinto siglo . El saqueo de Roma por Alarico produjo confusión. ¿Estaba la cristiana Roma siendo realmente castigada por Dios? Por otro lado, ¿cómo podían los cristianos responder a la acusación de los paganos que decían que sólo los dioses de la antigua Roma podían protegerla foreign invasions? Augustine found a solution. Replaced by a amillennialism premillennialism. In his De Civitate Dei , 20, 7-9, said the church was spiritually reigning on earth from Pentecost to the Last Judgement. This did not imply that evil had been eradicated from the earth. The Barbarian Invasions occurred because paganism was still well represented in Rome, and great corruption persisted there. But Rome could succeed under the spiritual reign of the church. Augustine Paul Orosius visited by then, and received the necessary encouragement to write a book, Historiae Adversus Paganus , which heralded a new imperial form under papal authority and confederated barbarian tribes.
During the Middle Ages
or allegorical approach of Augustine of Hippo spiritualizing cemented the foundation of the Middle Ages, and buried a thousand historicism years. Some exceptions were isolated in Andreas of Caesarea ( fifth / sixth centuries ) who identified the barbarian invasions in the first trumpet, and Beato de Liebana ( eighth century), who was in the fifth trump the Muslim invasions. But Augustine paved the way for others to conclude that the kingdom of the church began with the rise of the bishop of Rome to power. If we translate this to our time, means that the world will be destroyed, but converted. The tremendous effort of the papacy to unite the religions and nations of the world under his leadership in this approach comes from the Middle Ages.
For the tenth century , many began to realize that the Antichrist prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2 and the books of Daniel and Revelation, was the bishop of Rome. Now I could see again, as in first centuries of the Christian era, to Rome as a kingdom he deserved the judgments of God for their apostasy. Therefore, the trumpets of Revelation should be applied directly to Rome. When? Looking for evidence in history, Protestants realized that Western Rome had ended in the fifth century, after the four most significant blows he received from the barbarian armies. Moreover, from the S. VII Rome was being punished by God through the Muslim invasions, the Saracens first, and the Turks from the S. XIII, with the unmistakable features that had been represented by the fifth and sixth trumpets.
This was the classic approach of the Protestants of the seventeenth centuries the nineteenth . I left in the S. XX on Preterism and Futurism, the first among the Protestants under the influence of literary criticism of Scripture; second among evangelical conservatives under the influence of The Scofield Reference Bible (1909 and 1917), also adopted dispensationalism. Ironically, these two proposals, the Preterism and Futurism came from Catholic interpreters of the second half of the Middle Ages, to face historicism pointing to Rome as the harlot apocalyptic.
SDAs
Today, we the SDAs , we are practically the only heirs of the Protestant Reformation in the historicist interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy. In 1848 the Sabbath or Adventist Bible Conference s summed up what became the official interpretation of our church. We live in the era of the seventh church. The stamps are predicting the decline and apostasy Progressive Christian Church, and the sixth seal describes the end-time signs. The first four trumpets predicted the barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire (Visigoths, Vandals, Huns and Heruli). The fifth and sixth trumpets describe the Saracens and Turks respectively, with its climax on August 11, 1840. John's experience and the 'book' anticipated the Great Disappointment of October 22, 1844.
The official position of our church was repeated several times over the years, at meetings of the General Association of 1883, by a committee appointed by the AG, who gave his report at the end of Congress and declared that the historicist approach previously adopted by our church was foundational to the prophetic faith of Seventh-day Adventist Church Other sessions of the congress of the AG in 1901, 1903, 1905 and 1941, emphasized some or all of the items deemed most above. The dates of 1833 (the fall of meteors), August 11, 1840 (submission of Turkey to the Higher Powers of Europe) and October 22, 1844 (the disappointment of Revelation 10, and the beginning of the seventh trumpet with the ministry of Jesus in the Holy of Holies), were considered as "Milestones in Adventist History."
A breakthrough in the interpretation Adventist opened in the second half of S. XX, with a change in the target of trumpets and saw Edwin C. Thiele Mervyn Maxwell. Rome stopped being considered as the focal point of the first trumpet. On the contrary, saw it rather as the divine agent to punish Jerusalem. This approach led to spiritualize the third and fourth trumpets. Something similar happened to William Shea in two studies that were never published, and where God seemed to also have gone crazy to punish indiscriminately different entities, even the early church in the first trumpet ... Are not the trumpet judgments of God against the empire that oppressed and continues to oppress his people? For Absolutely! See Jer 51:27,35-36. What is the last empire to be destroyed by the Lord? Is not Rome, under the representation of Babylon in the last empire WAS ApocalipsisWhat That Should Be Destroyed by the Lord? Is it Not That of Rome , Represented by Babylon in Revelation? (cf. Apoc 9:14; 17-18).
Jon Paulien and Ranko Stefanovic went further still, and almost all the trumpets spiritualized (except the first and Thiele and Maxwell), completely disregarding the historical compliance the fifth and sixth trumpets, and their connection to our existence as a denomination. To quote literally J. Paulien, who confirmed in 3-ABN symposium on trumpets, their tendency spiritualizing.
"I think the trumpets are to be interpreted as symbols of spiritual realities" (Revelation Trumpets Decoding , 362ff]. "The events 'historical' we are looking not to address both nations political and ethnic groups with great ideas and philosophies and transnational movements through the era of the NT "(Toward an Adventist Consensus on the Seven Trumpets of Revelation , March 16-21, 1989: unpublished manuscript, submitted by Paulien at DARCOM). "The fifth and sixth trumpets can be parallel to Dan 11:40-45" (ibid ) and fulfilled at the end of time. The fifth trumpet, Paulien's approach, deals with the secularization of the French revolution (Marxism - Communism - Materialism - Evolution - Rationalism - Ecumenism - Spiritism). The sixth trumpet would be provided in this perspective, a union of secular capitalism, communism, Islam and the third world with all forms of Christianity.
Where is Rome in the interpretation of J. Paulien? Is no longer the white trumpets. What about the connections of the heavenly sanctuary showing that only the seventh trumpet is fulfilled during the time of priestly ministry in the holy place (Revelation 11:15-19)? Where do these interpretations suggest? As in the Middle Ages, the projections of the apocalyptic prophecies become more and more elusive and diffuse. Rome can easily blend back to his throne can not see as being the devil's throne on earth (Rev. 13:2-3). If we do this, how we see the fulfillment of the trumpets in the judgments of God that Rome deserves for what he did? ["I saw the woman (Rome) drunk the blood of the saints and those who have the testimony of Jesus "(Rev. 17:6)].
In this new career spiritualization that invaded the Protestant world throughout the twentieth century, and is now destroying, little by little, all the prophetic foundation of our faith, we find R. Stefanovic Paulien the footsteps of his doctoral thesis. In the book published by Andrews University Stefanovic, Revelation of Jesus Christ , 296-7, this author believes that the Age of Enlightenment is darker than the Dark Ages (Middle Ages). Locates contemporary philosophies in the fourth, fifth and sixth trumpets that appeared during and after the beginning of the end time, which corresponds to the seventh and last trump, when you open the door of the Holy of Holies (Rev. 11:19; cf. 9:13). Thus, when addressing the fifth trumpet Stefanovic does not know how to interpret its symbols and concludes that "can not know if John thought that every detail of this description should be interpreted" (ibid , 304-5).
If we follow his proposal, we must reach the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, with the door open to "end time" prophecy and in the fourth trumpet, to return to Islam who appeared at the beginning Middle Ages ( ibid, 296-7, 306-7). With this proposal we would never know when to place the sixth trumpet, which he projects to the same end of the end time. Moreover, it seems not to realize that the locusts represent hosts that fall into kingdoms and empires, philosophies no (Judges 6:5, 7:12; Jer 51:14,27, etc.)..
Consider that the tendency to spiritualize the apocalyptic prophecies affect not only the apocalyptic themes, but also various doctrines of the Christian church. Adventism was, is and will remain until the end, a reaction against spiritualization the days of creation, incarnation and resurrection of the Son of God, the material reality of heaven and the heavenly sanctuary (against pantheism) of God (as having no body) of the apocalyptic prophecies, etc. As noted E. White:
" spurious scientific theories are introduced as a thief in the night, stealing milestones and undermine the pillars of our faith ... The most misleading temptations of the enemy are being introduced and are being introduced in the most acute in the higher level. These temptations spiritualize the doctrines of present truth until there is a distinction between substance and shadow " (MM 87)." Thousands of those who boast of having knowledge believe that ... is proof of knowing brooding over Scripture and annul their most important truths by explanations that seek to spiritualize " ( PR 461).
What is the result of this alienation" blatantly irresponsible "of the Adventist interpretation of the trumpets, as someone cataloged these new trends? (not at the symposium). A chaos, a confusion that gives free rein to all sorts of imaginative interpretation. Time after time we heard at the symposium of the trumpets, saying that this section of Revelation is difficult, more difficult to understand. But this section of Revelation enjoyed the greatest consensus during the Reformation and throughout our prophetic movement. Why is now becoming so intriguing and confusing? Can not be because new concerns and hermeneutical principles are being introduced from modern exegesis imposed several criteria that are not necessarily endorsed by the biblical principles? Could it be that is because instead of investigating the history, many prefer the easier allegorical Alexandrian parents and the Middle Ages, which was to spiritualize and imaginative approaches to dream about the content of Revelation, to resolve what they do not understand?
Key points in comparison
1) The historical fulfillment of some trumpets
The traditional argument against historicism futuristic perspective was always lack presumably of historical evidence that could confirm the prophetic fulfillment. In this 3-ABN symposium was no exception. At this point, the futuristic brothers attended meetings were joined by those who held spiritual approach / idealists. It was evident that both currents needed such a denial of historicism to replace it with their theories, philosophies rather than specific historical facts. To deny the historicist interpretation, Uriah Smith ridiculed as much as they could, and stated emphatically that the date of August 11, 1840 was not met or had anything to do with the prophecy of the sixth trumpet. Again and again emphasized that even Josiah Litch abandoned this interpretation some time later in life.
Since E. White confirmed the compliance period of the sixth trumpet as having taken place on that specific date (which implies acceptance of the interpretation of the dates of the fifth trumpet), both futuristic and spiritualists sought to depreciate its value. Three different arguments are arguments to discredit their statements. On the one hand, said the presumptive compliance reported by E. White in GC 334-5, had to do with the prediction of Josiah Litch, not the prophecy of Revelation. Second, it was argued that E. White was not a specialist in history, according to testimony of his son that read Paulien. Third, nothing important to the Turkish Empire would have happened at that time.
From the viewpoint of historicism, responded to the first argument that the testimony of E. White refers unmistakably to the fulfillment of the fifth and sixth trumpets. She said, literally, "in 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy aroused general interest ... The event accomplished exactly the prediction (CS 382-3). She did not refer only to the prediction of Josiah Litch, but also the "compliance of prophecy "(the sixth trumpet).
the second point, we reply that we could agree with his son in the fact that some details in his description of historical events which included in its book Great Controversy , did not receive directly from heaven, but the secular historians extracted. But the story I brought for our consideration and their comments had to do with what God revealed to him by "the Spirit of God ... "to present" so as to shed light on the future struggle which is approaching so quickly ... as you got a sketch of the development proof of the great truths that at various times have been given to the world ... "(CS 14).
Dr. Jud Lake panel noted that, in the same chapter where E. White is the fulfillment of the sixth trumpet in 1840, included the fall of meteors of 1833 that supported the belief in the imminent coming of the Lord. That was another sign of the end time that was predicted in the sixth seal, and that had recently met. She included this event in that chapter to confirm how well founded the date of 1844 for the prophecy of Dan 8:14. [He was also an effort on the panel to ridicule the importance date of 1833, as well as the Lisbon earthquake in 1755, which revealed a lack of knowledge of historical facts and that no one bothered to respond at the symposium. See my book, The Seals and the Trumpets (2005), 177-188].
addition, both E. White as the Millerites and our pioneers did not need to research the history to say what happened in 1840. They testified to what was happening before their eyes, and can be corroborated his testimony even today by modern historians. I stressed to the audience some of the most impressive evidence that I included in my book The Seals and the Trumpets (2005), 285-360. Uriah Smith did not invent anything. The preserved the legacy he received from the Protestant Reformation of S. XVII to S. XIX, including the Millerites. We can say today just simply citing the testimony of secular historians. Their assessment of history confirms the fulfillment of all the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, not only of the trumpets.
When one of the brothers wanted to bring up the fact that the Turkish Empire did not fall in 1840, we said that's not what we were saying, it is not what they were saying the Millerites, Nor was what he actually said E. White, and that was what was expected to pass. That date marked a turning point in the Turkish Empire which was revealed in its submission to the higher powers of Europe and continues today with the submission of Muslim countries to the legality of the United Nations ...
Al traditional argument that Josiah Litch left the interpretation of 1840 as having been fulfilled on the exact date he gave, I said that also left the date in 1844 that still retain it was well chosen. We can understand why they snapped because the Lord did not come as I expected. But after understanding what was expected to pass in 1844, according to the Bible, our ancestors in the prophecy and mission of our church held all those dates, as well as we do today. Because that's the truth.
2) An alleged dichotomy between exegesis and historical fulfillment
Every time we tried to connect the text with a specific point in history, Jon Paulien raised his hand and insisted that we must interpret the text mentioned under biblical hermeneutical principles solids. It was evident that, for him, a point of historical connection with the apocalyptic text is incompatible with modern principles of exegesis. But according to modern principles of exegesis, we can not go into history to find, for example, the exact title of a future entity that fits the number 666. Why? Supposedly, because the first-century readers could not know. Can we accept that as a rule hermeneutic for understanding the prophecies of Revelation? For many, a spiritualize Revelation 13:18 is, again, the easiest solution, presumably even if that solution can not be sustained (see my book the apocalyptic expectations of the Shrine, cap. 10).
Paulien's insistence, as modern interpreters of Revelation, in which first-century readers had to understand the message of John in the Book of Revelation, can be applied to the meaning of some terms. But if the horse represents the sixth trumpet and spitting fire from their mouths, could not apply that to the powder of cannon and guns of the Turks who, by then had been introduced in the story, because that the gunpowder was unknown in the first century? Do we have to try to understand the symbol Presumably the colors of the armor and clothing described in the fifth and sixth trumpets to spiritualize then that symbol on your application? Could not usually applied literally to the color of the armor and clothing of the riders Turks?
Sorry! But we can not accept a principle so skeptical. Some portions of the Apocalypse were not and could not be understood by readers of the late first century, or by John himself (cf. 1 Pet 1:10-12). If we have the right perspective of prophecy, history will give us the key to determining whether the description should be interpreted as being literal or symbolic. Again, what our ancestors were wrong when they saw historicist connection with an army hail fell on Rome from the cold lands of northern Europe (first trumpet); connecting the mountain burning with an army Rome fell on the lowlands from northern Africa (second trumpet) and the star that falls from the sky in the third and fifth trumpets armies coming from the east as the stars in their stellar motion to invade Roman territory? Not per se. While sometimes these relationships are not really necessary, can legitimately be held as additional proof compliance.
3) Imposition of unnecessary structural literary principles
In my first speech I presented some arguments that usually bring up to deny that the white the trumpet is always Rome. These are the concerns and deductions that some have introduced in our church since the second half of S. XX:
a) Both the original church as the first seal began in the first century. Therefore, the first trumpet should also begin in the first century.
Answer: This assumption is unnecessary, inconsistent and arbitrary. The churches of Asia that received the letter of Jesus were raised by Paul several years after the commission Gospel of Matthew 28. Jerusalem had been destroyed by more than twenty years before John received the visions of Revelation, and its revelation was given to reveal the future (Revelation 1:1). The old Jerusalem had no more to the church, but a new Jerusalem in which expected live soon (Rev. 3:12; see chaps. 21, 22). In addition, the old Jerusalem fell in 70 AD, that is, 40 years after the presumed start of both the first church and the second seal, not in AD 31. What can we win, then, with the election of the destruction of Jerusalem as being the presumed target of the first trumpet? Do we have to impose an arbitrary literary principle to start the trumpets at the same time that the churches and seals in 31? That does not fit historically and does not require either the book of Revelation.
We must take into account - as I said more than once in the meeting - that the message of Revelation was given to the seven churches that were being persecuted by " principal agent of Satan to make war against Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian era" that is, "the Roman Empire, which prevailed in the pagan religion" ( CS 491). The ten plagues that hit the Egyptian Empire fell long after the Israelites began to cry out to God for the Egyptian oppression, at the end of oppression. What do we, then, to require that the first trumpet is fulfilled in the first century, if we can not locate it in 31? In the case of the trumpets, we can add to the barbarians began to invade the Roman Empire from the time of the apostle John to the late first century. But the Revelator chose four decisive blows against Rome that took place in the fifth century. The capital of the Western Empire ended in the fifth century by the four strokes of God. No other kingdom threatened the Roman Empire before, leading to his downfall final.
b) Since each rule revealed in the visions of Daniel covered the same period of time, visions of the Apocalypse (churches - seal - trumpets) should cover the same amount of time.
Answer: see here, again, a change concern of looking at entities that would undermine and eventually overthrow the Roman Empire to concern by mapping an arbitrary literary model set by the interpreter.
Indeed, the churches and the seals had to do with aspects ecclesiastical trumpets with state tables. Daniel revealed various empires, while John dealt with the last rule, ie Rome. For Rome, both Daniel and John projected three moments that the story was commissioned to confirm, and are also reflected in the threefold structure of the trumpets (Chapter 8: four trumpets; Chapter 9: ; two trumpets; Chapter 11: a trumpet). The tracker of Rome character that deserved to be punished by God was first Pagan Rome (four trumpets), then East Rome with the Holy Roman Empire, the Middle Ages (two trumpets); and final deception of Babylon of the last days (of New Rome with the political recovery of the papacy).
projects, these three moments in the words of Ellen White and other prophetic events.
I. Pagan Rome. was "the principal agent of Satan to make war against Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian era ... where the prevailing pagan religion" ( CS 491). This was the first tribulation (Revelation 1:9, 2:10; see Rom 5:3).
II. Papal Rome. "In the sixth century the papacy had become firmly established. The seat of power was fixed in the imperial city, whose bishop was proclaimed head of the whole church. Paganism had given place to the papacy ... (Rev. 13:2) "(CS , 48). This was the second tribulation, called "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21,29), portrayed in the fifth seal (Rev. 6:9-10). E. White likened the cry of the martyrs of the fifth seal with the work of the Inquisition in the S. XIII, in the Middle Ages. "The mutilated bodies of millions of martyrs cried to God for vengeance against this apostate power" ( CS 64).
III. Papal Rome revived in the time of the end to form the great Babylon. "The papacy is just what prophecy declared that it would be: the apostasy of the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) "(CS 628). In conjunction with the world, will produce the third and final Roman tribulation (Daniel 12:1, Rev. 12:17, 13:15-18, 14:12).
A staff member suggested to me 3-ABN in a personal exchange while eating, that the seven trumpets are in preparation for the seven last plagues. Very good, I said. Nations do not pay attention to the final divine warnings from the story of how God punished Rome to pursue his people through the previous six trumpets (Rev. 9:20-21). Then the Lord will be justified in the universe to give it its final blow in the seventh and final trumpet that includes the seven last plagues (Revelation 11:18, 15:1, 16:1). Let's be careful not to hide or evade the purpose of the judgments of God through the ages, through the adoption of hermeneutical principles that were overcome by Protestantism. Do not spiritualize the trumpets in philosophies that do not allow us to see how bad is this "gigantic system of deception " in light of the throne of God and the court of the universe ( CS 626).
4) A presumed dichotomy between biblical exegesis and the testimony of the Spirit of Prophecy
Another point in the debate had to do with Using the writings of Ellen White in dealing with biblical themes. Should they take their statements only on a spiritual approach (as suggested of moments in the discussion), or may be regarded as a celestial guide for how to interpret a vision or text of the book of Revelation? Jon Paulien said several times that we can collect all the statements of E. White and make it say what we want. He insisted, therefore, the need to work on the book of Revelation in solid hermeneutical principles are based on a detailed exegesis of the text. This may sound good, but the problem is that resorted to this kind of argument not only when the Futurists brought to consider certain testimony of the Spirit of Prophecy that called into question their approach, but also when it is confronted with biblical facts that dispute their point of view. In addition, he reiterated a principle that previously included one of his books.
To Jon Paulien, can consider only the statements of Ellen White which were published. I said in my third speech with the statement of William C. White, son of EG White. On May 23, 1899, he wrote a letter saying that the Lord required his mother, toward the end of his life: "For about four years ago the word came to her: ' Board fragments, do not miss nothing ', and this was repeated several times since then "(AL White, Ellen G. White : IV, 451). That is the reason that White Center is organized in our church. With respect to the vision of Revelation 5, we will consider briefly below, she wrote on December 24, 1902: "I talked to the fifth chapter of Revelation. That chapter had me in my mind, and tell people what the Lord had given me "(Lt 211," Elshaven, "St. Helena, California).
While recognizing the need felt in the symposium of a hermeneutic study statements of E. White, taking into account the context of their statements ... I said that my problem with some collections of his statements, has to do, often, not what she wrote, but rather with a selective compilation that disregards other statements that do not square with the view compiler. Furthermore, the risk of pressing a piece of the puzzle to make it fit apocalyptic in a place that does not belong, can damage the puzzle. When this happens, would not that be a sufficient indication to put that piece aside and choose the correct part? The worst thing you can do is deal with a misunderstanding with another wrong assumption.
Other visions related
This leads to other views related to the first half of Revelation . To face the future that places the seals and trumpets in the future, many have tried to project the vision of the throne in Revelation 4 and 5 on a opening frame. Brought up the fact that the candlestick (Rev. 4:5) is in the Holy Place. But E. White never said that in this vision, the throne is in the Holy Place. On the contrary, it clearly placed the most holy place (ST 02/05/1995, 7, 10/10/1892, 1, 1 MR 109; A. Treiyer, The Apocalyptic Expectations of the Sanctuary , 310-311). If you can see the chandelier before the throne is because (as Sarah Peck, secretary E. White explained), the door between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies was open (Revelation 4:1 ; Ms 27, 1891).
When some futurists refer certain statements of E. White that put this vision into the Holy of Holies, in the end the world, in the context of trial, some silent, and others begin to assert they can not take all of your writings as an authority on biblical interpretation ... That way we will not ever convince futuristic interpreters. In addition, a careful exegesis of these chapters confirms what we wrote E. White on that vision. Contrary to what we've been saying for years by some interpreters Adventists, the view is filled with images of trial. It is generally recognized outside of our church, and was maintained for most of the writers S. Adventists during XX. Nor can we deny their connection to the holy place, as demonstrated again and again in my books. See especially the two appendices of my book Final Crisis Rev. 4 and 5, where I answer all the arguments put forward by J. Paulien, R. Stefanovic to deny a trial scene that vision.
The vision of the throne in Revelation 4 and 5 as well as the vision of the seals were considered at the symposium as crucial to the interpretation of trumpets, as part of the literary structure of the first half of Revelation. Although asked to leave the consideration of that vision for another chance because it was not part of the purpose of the symposium, I also had to say something about that vision. According to EG White, the sealed book of Revelation 5 has not yet been taken and open. Still expected to occur in the near future. She never linked this event with an inaugural environment, but the conclusion of the ministry of the Lamb at the end of the world. The same thing we did the first interpreter of the Apocalypse in the S. II, who presented that vision into the future (see references in A. Treiyer, Final Crisis in Revelation 4 and 5 , 16).
The very fact that John is crying because it is not the Lamb in the vision before their eyes, reveals that he was taken to consider a final decision. Why are you crying, if the vision is related to what allegedly had taken place more than 60 years ago in 31? He knew that the Lamb had been enthroned at the time (Rev. 3:21). It is obvious therefore that the vision of the throne of Revelation 4 and 5 depicts a new scene. There he emphasizes the fact that no one in heaven or on earth can take and open the book of the inheritance in the end of the trial court, except the Lamb of God.
A typological confusion
Pioneers Adventist movement and EG White were clear about what was expected to occur at the opening of the heavenly sanctuary, and what should happen at the end of the trial investigator. For years, Andrews University has been offering an upside-down by pressing on some pieces of the puzzle typological and prophetic in a mismatch. The right part indicates that the first crowning at the opening, he sat down on a priestly kingdom of mediation in the order of Melchizedek (on the throne of grace: Heb 4:16), not even on the throne of the New Jerusalem foreshadowed by the throne of David. But it was expected and still expects a second coronation that must take place at the end when the son sat on the throne of his glory (that of David: Mat 25:31), as King of kings and Lord of lords, and as King of the New Jerusalem. This was represented by the Lamb at the time of receiving the sealed book in Revelation 5, and open at the time of the wedding of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-8).
With respect to the two crowned with two specific times, opening and final, EG White wrote, based first in Zech 6: "'He will sit and rule upon his throne, being priest on his throne '. Not yet' on the throne of his glory '; the kingdom of glory has been given yet. Only when his mediating work done, 'the Lord God will give you the throne of David his father', a kingdom that 'there will be no end "(Luke 1:32-33)" (CS 468) . This will not happen until Jesus has finished his priestly office in the heavenly sanctuary, deposed his priestly robes, put on his clothes himself more real, and crowned, riding on a chariot of clouds, to trample the heathen in anger ', and deliver his people "as David when he was crowned ( The Early Years, I, 125-6).
With respect to time to take the sealed book John saw in the right hand of God (Revelation 5:1), she first described the resignation of the Jewish nation to the theocracy and, therefore, the covenant that made them the Lord's people. "His decision was recorded in the book that John saw in the hand of Him who sat on the throne, the book that no man could open. With all his vindictive nature of this decision will appear before them on the day this book is open by the Lion of the tribe of Judah "(COL , 294). This shows that at the opening, this book had not yet been sealed. We were not told when the book was sealed, but that will be taken and opened by the Lamb at the end. "The time will come when everyone will praise him ... saying 'You are worthy to take the book and open its seals ...'" ( RH, 04/06/1995, 6 .) While E. White linked other songs of Rev. 5 at different times, this new song is the moment when the Lamb takes the sealed book and open it, never placed in a context inaugural.
In this context, the seals and the trumpets must deal as a "major revision" final ((in RH, July 4, 1893) the testimony left by those who claimed the inheritance promised in the book (see Rev. 6:11, where the final white robes are given to the martyrs after they died, something that should occur at the conclusion of the trial: Heb 9:27, Revelation 3:4-5). The seventh seal contains the seven trumpets and the ministry of Jesus before the altar of gold, to show how God fulfilled his part in the covenant. See you there God's answers to the cries of his people oppressed by the trial of trumpets and heavenly intercession on the altar of gold (Rev. 8.2-5). From this perspective, all statements of Ellen White and the Bible that bother today to those who cling to an approach presumably inaugural Rev. 4 and 5, fitting into the puzzle without having to resort to futurism or double compliance to explain these prophecies [For careful consideration of all statements EG White on these issues, see my books Final Crisis Rev. 4 and 5; The Seals and Trumpets , and more recently, the apocalyptic expectations of the Shrine : ; www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com].
5) The need to be "spiritual" in the presentation of trumpets
J. Paulien said it is trying to form a kind of Biblical Research Institute (BRI in English) in Loma Linda. "How you doing, Albert, to be practical and spiritual with your Historicism?" He asked in a tone of friendly and humorous illustration, saying that this is our current challenge. Thus, adding that the new research center aims to study the Bible prophecies of Revelation in a spiritual and practical approach. This sounds good, but we must be careful. There is a tendency in the west coast of the United States to depreciate the Millerites and the pioneers of our church for allegedly introduced historical points (dates, beasts, whores, etc.) without a spiritual message. I'm not sure that this has always been the case among our pioneers. But I know we must be careful not to try to offer a spiritual application of the prophecies of his disembodied historical fulfillment. The book of Revelation can not be reduced to a treaty homiletic. The messages and practical and spiritual studies of Revelation should be removed from its link with history. We can not divorce the historicism of homiletics, as if they could work together.
Paulien I answered by saying that my books and evangelistic seminars regularly are considered as being highly spiritual. In this context, I read what Dr. Ferda Canale (Andrews University) wrote in the preface of my book the apocalyptic expectations Sanctuary. The specified that "the author [the server] helps the reader to experience the prophecies from the perspective of historical experience of God's people through the centuries." This is what allows us to be highly spiritual in our message. God's people needed to know, from the perspective the end of the first century, what would happen to the church and the Roman Empire was persecuting the church. They needed a heavenly guidance to enable them to stand in the conflict, until the end of the world (Mat 28:20). They had to know that God was in control of their history and destiny! Nothing will more faith, peace of mind in distress and deep spirituality to know these facts that only through historicism can be known.
We need to prove how God led his people and nations through the ages, to know what our place in God's plan. This will fill us with emotion, as happened with the disciples of Emmaus, when the Lord opened to them the prophecies were fulfilled in his day (Luke 24:32). Who can not get excited today, to get us involved in the last act of the drama of the great controversy between Christ and Satan, and that the Lord calls us to enlist under his banner?
Conclusion
The last question was raised in the panel came from a member of staff of 3 ABN. He said he had received a message from a Catholic seer 3-ABN, which asked if the Seventh Day Adventist Church had changed its interpretation of the trumpets. "Given the different positions found here" (on panel), "how I can answer?"
replied that our church has an official position of trumpets coming from 1848, and was corroborated in several sessions of the General Association. DARCOM [Daniel and Revelation Committee] in the 80 did not reject that official position. Since no work was then presented that would satisfy all the requirements of the biblical text and history, decided not to publish anything about it, waiting that God would guide the church to better understand these prophecies of the future. If the church is going to move in the future in another direction, do not know (not believe). Meanwhile, it is advisable to keep the official position of our church. J. Paulien agreed.
But the challenge for the church remains. "Consider our church this topic to really understand, and stop saying it is a problem text? We can always grow and improve our understanding of these prophecies. But, please! Progress in our understanding and interpretation of the apocalyptic prophecies in the furrow opened by those before us!
PD. I was told by indirect sources, that after the meetings, three of the brothers left their futuristic futuristic approach of trumpets. Special thanks to Pastor Ty Gibson for the great job you did in the strong and open discussions that took place in the panel. Pastor CA Murray also who served well his role as facilitator, assuming an impartial attitude in the discussions. I also thank to 3 ABN call to discuss these important issues of our faith, and especially Shelley Quinn who organized the symposium.
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